This is a talk page to discuss the improvement of Grant Ward. This talk page is currently inactive.
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- The following discussion is an archived discussion. Please do not modify it.
- For is the winner {{{sig}}}
There has been a disagreement about the profile image for Ward. Some users feel that a promotional image should be used even if it doesn't reflect a character's current look. Others believe it should be changed. This is the current image (on the right):
This is the image that it would be changed to (on the left):
As you can see, there have been multiple changes to Ward's appearance that reflect changes in his storyline and character. Please vote on whether the new image should be used. (This vote will also be used to avoid arguments over similar situations in the future as stated [1]) Voters must have an account. Coluanprime (talk) 05:06, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Only those who have joined the MCU Wiki before voting began are allowed to vote.--UskokHail HYDRA! 12:38, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
For
- Coluanprime (talk) 05:06, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Nciszdabest 05:10, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- JMAS Talk to me. 06:45, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Dr.Who1997HAIL HYDRA! (◣‿◢) 08:34, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Erisiel (talk) 12:17, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- ~Silverstream (talk) 15:16, December 25, 2014 (UTC)Silverstream
- Overlord Divine (talk) 18:33, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- MCUFFTW (talk) 20:50, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Milomilk was here 22:43, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- --HYDRA Agent (talk) 09:27, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
- Saltzmann (talk) 13:30, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
- User:Ellchicago 22:29, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- --UskokHail HYDRA! 19:32, December 28, 2014 (UTC)
- Chrisflistal (talk) 21:50, December 28, 2014 (UTC)
- LOTRfan394 (talk) 23:03, December 28, 2014 (UTC)
Against
- Bratpack (talk) 05:19, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- KylieMfever (talk) 11:36, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- TomasDerksen (talk) 12:58, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- DinoSlider (talk) 17:43, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Thurgood42 (talk) 20:02, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- El-Ocsed (talk) 20:53, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Professor Ambrius (talk) 21:18, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Babyrockhopper (talk) 03:05, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
- User:HailHydra17 13:21, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
- New Captain (talk • contribs • count) 05:06, December 27, 2014 (UTC)
- Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 06:20, December 28, 2014 (UTC)
Comments
The issue is not whether that latest appearance should be recognized or not; the issue is that AoS is the latest feature of the MCU, so a standard recognizable image needs to be consistently maintained until a new feature is established. I care about consistency.
P.S. why is changing Grant Ward so important? Why not Skye, Jemma, Zabo? I think that this vote is for the satisfaction of Ward fans, not the wiki as a whole. The preceding is my opinion and reflects my feelings and doesn't reflect administration, who each individually have their own opinions...Bratpack (talk) 05:27, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- The main image should reflect the most current way the character appears in-universe. With Skye, Simmons or Zabo, their current appearance in the promotional shots does not differ from the way they look in screenshots, so either image works. Ward now looks significantly different, ever since he shaved and trimmed his hair. Consistency should be in showing the most recent appearance of the character, not "if one character has a promotional shot in the infobox, then all of them should." - JMAS Talk to me. 06:52, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
As as soon as we change one of the images for AoS, I will change them all, to keep consistent. BUt then, I geuss, people would cry. But I, just like Brat, care about consistency. And just like Bratpack I think this voting has nothing to do with consitency, but with Ward Fans, who dont see the whole picture.TomasDerksen (talk) 12:59, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Well, this wiki has always used a high quality screenshot of the character's latest/current appearance in the last media he had been portrayed, using promotional images only in case that appearance is the same in both, exactly just what JMAS has said. That's the reason why Nick Fury's promotional image from Captain America: The Winter Soldier was changed as Fury changed his appearance at the end of the movie, and that's why changed Carter's image to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. images and Agent Carter now, instead of the character's appearance as an old woman she had in 2014. You should have respected those standards that were active before you joined the wiki, instead of threatening that you would change every image just because you're upset because you're losing the vote... Shabook (talk) 16:25, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- haha, I'm not sad about losing a vote, I'm just looking at the whole picture, the whole wiki, instead of this one page. And i'm looking at consistence. That is not the same as "losing a vote". And the appereance between the promotional and the currect Ward is almost the same, there is no major appereance change, so thats not en excuse that couldbe used: "He had a major change in appeance". because he had not.TomasDerksen (talk) 16:36, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- We don't need to change the rest of the character's images because they all still look the same. Ward has shaved his beard and given himself a haircut. If Coulson went bald, we would change the picture too. We don't have too though because he still looks the same. You seem to think that this vote is about promotional vs screenshot which it is not. It is about having an image that show's the characters appearance. By your standards, because we changed Nick Fury's image we needed to have changed everyone else who had a CATWS promo picture as their image to a screenshot.
- Coluanprime (talk) 17:43, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- Indeed, we should have indeed. Look at the picute of the doctor, has hasn't shaved and his hair is wild on the promo, It isn't in the last episodes. So according to your standard we should change it. But why haven;t we heard anyone about that oen, but we do about Ward? Because people care about ward and dont lookto others.
- This ward and the promo-ward also still look the same. No MAJOR appereance change has occured.TomasDerksen (talk) 18:02, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- At this point I'm pretty sure you are face-blind or something because I can't understand your arguements.
- Coluanprime (talk) 18:27, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
- I am not face-blind or anything, I just state the clear thing. He hasn;t had a major appereance change. Using that as an argument wont work, because he hasn't. He changed hair and shaved, thats a little change, but not a major change at all. Therefore, you using that as an argument, does't work.
- The same arguments you guys use for Ward, can be used for Calvin Aswell, but no one mentioned it at all? Why not? ITs the exact same, small appereance change.TomasDerksen (talk) 21:30, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
I'm speaking as someone who can't tell faces worth a crap, and I'm just saying, if I didn't know both those pictures were of Ward, I wouldn't be able to tell. And while there is something to be said for consistency (believe me I know, I'm OCD), there is also something to be said for accuracy. As of late, the promotional image is no longer accurate.~Silverstream (talk) 22:20, December 25, 2014 (UTC)Silverstream
Both of them are clearly Ward, because there isn't a major appereance change, and I notice those things (I'm autistic). If there would have been a major appereance change, I would be fine with changing the image, but there hasn't been a major appereance change, only a small one. (Different hair and shaven, thats something men do on a weekly base, the shaven part atleast). The change is so small that it is still accurate, the promo is still clearly and easily to spot Ward. If I would hear any good arguments, instead of these small appereance change, yeah, it would be accepteble, if it was as big as the one Raina will have or the one Agent 33 had, then it would be a major change and the picture wouldn't be accurate no more.TomasDerksen (talk) 22:29, December 25, 2014 (UTC)
I will be really honest about this: I would care less about which image was used, if Ward wasn't one of the featured articles. I tried earlier today to let this subject die by asking if "Agent Carter" could be the featured show, but Uskok (wisely) said that that was premature. When the marquee becomes "Avengers: Age of Ultron" or "Agent Carter", then I feel people can go hog-wild. But, right now, I want this wiki to have what MARVEL gave us. MARVEL knew Ward would change; yet we were still given that image. It represents something, that Ward is a fugitive. NO haircut can change that. Sif's image is different because, I thought, that she appeared in a different medium since TTDW. Fury the same in AoS. Ward, imo, has not changed character or medium. If I wanted to play sour grapes, then Loki should look like Odin; does not everyone else think he is?
As an administrator, I will comply with the vote; as an editor and a fan, I am firmly against until the marquee changes...Bratpack (talk) 00:37, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
Marvel didn't do anything. This was ABC. ABC only takes photos and posts them. There wasn't any hidden meaning, they knew Ward would escape but he hadn't yet and they weren't going to have him shave for a photo shoot. The new hair represents Ward as a fugitive, with a beard he was a prisoner. Your argument falls completely down there.
Coluanprime (talk) 04:21, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, what will happen should it become a tie? Overlord Divine (talk) 12:03, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
- Last time we had a tie the admins had to vote, so I think that will happen this time aswell.TomasDerksen (talk) 12:24, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
- I see
Overlord Divine (talk) 13:37, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
- Check the Voting policy for an actual answer.Shabook (talk) 13:39, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
- So If I understand correctly, with a tie it stays the way it is? (This is just my lack of english asking)TomasDerksen (talk) 13:42, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
- Check the Voting policy for an actual answer.Shabook (talk) 13:39, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
He has changed his look but it isn't much of a change. I feel as though that new image could easily be in the character's biography. Changing the image removes consistency to the whole wiki. Keeping the promotional image is consistent and that's what we want on this wiki. New Captain (talk • contribs • count) 05:10, December 27, 2014 (UTC)
Consistency does not belong on the mile high pedestal you have put it on. Maybe a kilometer high one... It also isn't even a part of this issue. One image shouldn't have to influence the rest of them. This is an issue of showing Ward as he is on the show now. Correctness must trump consistency or else everything is compromised. We can't allow the fact that Ward's photo is from the same photo set as the rest of the cast's photos to make the article not be up-to-date. Coluanprime (talk) 05:30, December 27, 2014 (UTC)
"Correctness must trump consistency," huh? So you are saying that a picture of Odin should be in Loki's image box. We changed Agent 33 to her most current form; Raina will probably change in March. Both images are correct; a shave and a haircut does not change a character.
On another note, why are you trying to convince people in your comments. I am writing to you as leader of my side; I don't think that people should have to justify their vote except voluntarily. It feels like voter intimidation to me...Bratpack (talk) 12:57, December 27, 2014 (UTC)
Correctness must trump consistency, true, since this promo is still correct it can stay according to this quote. TomasDerksen (talk) 14:05, December 27, 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that the Loki/Odin argument can be applied here, as techically, we as the audience saw him in his Loki-form last time he was on screen. He changed from Odin, to Loki, said "thank you" to Thor, and then the credits rolled, so I think the image on Loki's article is correct for the moment. True, he probably is seen as Odin most of the time to other Asgardians offscreen, but as far as I know, how characters are shown offscreen does not count for which image should be shown.
Then, as ThomasDerksen pointed out, that shaving and haircutting isn't a big deal. I can agree with that in very minor instances, like for example Tony Stark has a 1/3 inch shorter hair than before. Hovewer, I would say that in Wards case, it is a bigger deal. Not only cosmetically, but also in story representation, as when he was bearded and had longer hair, it represented that he was a prisoner, or hunted and on the run. When he shaved, he was more "free" to do what he wanted. The fact that they showed it onscreen is according to me a sign that is is a more major thing than for example Skye changing haircut. If Odin shaved his beard, or Loki had short hair (again), I would also vote for latest image that represent these characters. I know these two are extreme examples, but I still wanted to say that. Overlord Divine (talk) 14:22, December 27, 2014 (UTC)
- I completely agree with Overlord Divine. The promo image shows Ward when he was a prisoner of S.H.I.E.L.D. He's not a prisoner anymore, he's free as a bird.--UskokHail HYDRA! 19:42, December 28, 2014 (UTC)
- With only a few more people who could vote, It seems this will be a lose for the wiki, but a win for the fans.TomasDerksen (talk) 20:53, December 28, 2014 (UTC)
That was needlessly rude and petty. This wasn't driven by Ward-fans, it was driven by people who want to keep the high standards of the wiki.Coluanprime (talk) 00:20, December 31, 2014 (UTC)
- Thats something both side wanted ;). Both the change and not-change side were driven by people who wanted to keep the high standards of this wiki. And while for the pro-people this new image is keeping the high standards, for me it is lowering a bit of the high standards. And if we had kept the old one, if the votes would have been different, for me it would have been keeping the high standards of this wiki, and for you, pro-changing, it would have been lowering the standards. Thats why I said that is a lose for the wiki, because in my eyes, with this decision, we lowered the high standards of this wiki.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.